Draft Programme
as of 29 August 2011

  (Click on a session below for further details)  


The ICAO FRMS Symposium
30 – 31 August
The Third Annual Meeting of the FRMS Forum
1 – 2 September
Come and find out what new provisions will mean for the oversight and implementation of FRMS, get the highlights of the underlying science and gain insight into the more complex issues regarding FRMS.
Learn lessons from people in the aviation industry with hands-on experience in FRMS and review some of the commercial tools available to assist with implementation. Further information about the FRMS Forum may be found at:

Get informed!


Gain experience!
ICAO’s FRMS Symposium Topics: The FRMS Forum’s Third Annual Meeting Programme:


  • Day 1: Tuesday, 30 August 2011














  • Day 3: Thursday, 1 September 2011













Cocktail Reception - Hosted by ICAO
Dinner Reception**
  • Day 2: Wednesday, 31 August 2011
  • Day 4: Friday , 2 September 2011

The ICAO FRMS Symposium
DAY 1: Tuesday, 30 August 2011 - Morning

Moderator: Ms. Nancy Graham, Director, Air Navigation Bureau, ICAO

9:00 – 9:15

Opening and Welcome Remarks

Mr. Roberto Kobeh,
President of Council, ICAO.

9:15 – 9:45

Why we Need to Improve the Way we Manage Fatigue – The Global Perspective

Keynote Speaker:
Mr. Randy Babbitt,
FAA Administrator
9:45 – 9:50
Lead in to Conference Sessions
Nancy Graham, ICAO

SESSION 1 – Is FRMS the Answer to All Our Fatigue Problems?
Ms. Nancy Graham, Director, Air Navigation Bureau, ICAO

9:50 – 10:20

The FRMS Journey: From its Beginnings to ICAO Standards

Dr. Curt Graeber
Leader of ICAO's FRMS Task Force
Flight sponsored by:
National Airlines Council of Canada

10:20 – 10:30

Questions to Dr. Graeber and Summary

Ms. Nancy Graham,
Director ANB, ICAO

10:30 - 11:00

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA)
SESSION 2 – FRMS SARPS – the Conceptual Framework
Moderator: Mr.
Mervyn Fernando, President of the ANC, ICAO

11:00 – 11:10

Why do we need FRMS Standards and Recommended Practices?

Mr. Mervyn Fernando,
President ANC, ICAO

11:10 – 11:25

The Structure and Content of the FRMS Provisions

Dr. Michelle Millar
FRMS Project Coordinator, ICAO

11:25 - 11:40

The SMS & FRMS Relationship: Natural Bedfellows or Do They Both Have to Grow Up First?

Capt. John Illson,
Chief, ISM Section, ICAO

11:40 – 12:00

Lounge Interview:
FRMS Guidance for Regulators and Operators

- Mr. Guenther Matschnigg,
- Ms. Nancy Graham,
Director ANB, ICAO
- Capt. Don Wykoff, President, IFALPA
12:00 – 13:30
DAY 1: Tuesday, 30 August 2011 - Afternoon

SESSION 3 – The Science Behind FRMS
Capt. Jim Mangie, Pilot Fatigue Program Director, Delta Air Lines

13:30 – 13:40

Using Science to Guide Us

Capt. Jim Mangie,
Delta Air Lines

13:40 - 13:55

The Causes of Fatigue
  • Sleep Loss
  • Circadian Factors
  • The "Perfect Roster"

Prof. Philippe Cabon, Paris Descartes University, France
Flight sponsored by:
National Airlines Council of Canada

13:55 – 14:10

Measuring Fatigue (Including Bio-Mathematical Models)

Dr. Greg Belenky,
Washington State University, U.S.
Flight sponsored by:
National Airlines Council of Canada

14:10 – 14:25

Science in an Operational Setting

Prof. Philippa Gander,
Massey University, New Zealand
Flight sponsored by:
Delta Air Lines

14:25 - 15:00

Lounge Interview:

Learning to Talk to Scientists
  • Where are the gaps?
  • Subject Matter Experts vs. Scientists
  • Asking scientists operational questions
  • What science do the mathematical models reflect?

- Prof. Philippe Cabon
- Dr. Greg Belenky
- Prof. Philippa Gander

15:00 – 15:30

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by the Fatigue Risk Management Science Limited


SESSION 4 – Building and Maintaining Trust
Ms. Michelle Millar, FRMS Project Coordinator, ICAO

15:30 – 16:30

Lounge Interview:
  • Effective safety reporting systems
  • Safety vs. labour negotiations
  • Personal responsibility and fitness for duty
  • The role of the DME in FRMS
  • Sleep disorders and medicals
  • The use of hypnotics
  • Sharing and protecting data (government, the regulator, the operator)

- Capt. Don Wykoff,
President, IFALPA
- Dr. Tony Evans, Chief
Aviation Med. Section,
- Mr. Bill Voss,
- Prof. Philippa Gander,
Director, Sleep/Wake
Research Centre


Cocktail Reception
Hosted by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)
DAY 2: Wednesday, 31 August 2011 - Morning

SESSION 5 – FRMS Regulatory Challenges
: Mr. Mike Comber, Director ICAO Relations, IATA

9:00 – 9:10


Mr. Mike Comber,

9:10 – 9:30

The Problem with Operators

Wing Commander Ben Cook,
Australian Defence Force

9:30 – 9:50

Continuous Monitoring and Oversight of States with FRMS Regulations

Mr. Henry Gourdji,
Chief, CMO Section, ICAO

9:50 - 10:10

Can Regulators be Confident that an FRMS Provide an Acceptable Level of Safety?
  • Aesthetics vs. Substance
  • Performance Indicators
  • When to say "No"

Ms. Kathryn Jones,
Manager, Operational Regulation, UK CAA

10:10 - 10:30

Experiences on the Road to FRMS Regulation

Mr. Daniel Coutelier,
Rulemaking Officer, EASA

10:30 - 10:45

Question and Answer

- Mr. Ben Cook
- Mr. Henry Gourdji
- Ms. Kathryn Jones
- Mr. Daniel Coutelier

10:45 – 11:15

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by AD-OPT, A Kronos Division


SESSION 6 – What do the FRMS SARPS Mean for States?
Moderator: Mr. Jim Dow, Air Navigation Commissioner, Canada

11:15 – 12:00

Lounge Interview:
Standards for FRMS ask States to advance further in the direction of performance-based regulation.
  • What are the challenges for regulators in developing such regulations?
  • What difficulties can be anticipated when implementing them?
  • What can and should be done to ensure consistency when they are being interpreted and applied?
  • How can states know that they are working?

- Ms. Nicole Girard
Director, Policy and
Regulatory Services,
Transport Canada
- Ms. Izabela Tissot
Antunes Sampaio
, Civil
Aviation Regulation
Specialist, ANAC
- Ms. Kathryn Jones,
Manager, Operational
Regulation, UK CAA
- Mr. John Duncan,
Manager, Flight
Standards, FAA
12:00 - 13:30
DAY 2: Wednesday, 31 August 2011 - Afternoon

SESSION 7 – FRMS Challenges for the Operator
: Capt. Paul McCarthy, Observer to the ANC, IFALPA

13:30 – 13:50

The Problem with Regulators

- Ms. Nancy Rockbrune
Assistant Director,
- Capt. Michel
Airlines Council of

13:50 – 14:05

Operators Large and Small - Is FRMS for Everybody?
  • Keeping it simple
  • High risks and increasing operational complexity

Dr. Alexandra Holmes,
Cranfield University
Flight sponsored by:
National Airlines Council of Canada

14:05 – 14:20

What about the Cabin Crew?
  • Does anybody really care?

Ms. Candace Kolander,
International Transport Workers' Federation

14:30 – 15:00

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by InterDynamics


SESSION 8 – The Difficult Questions

: Bill Voss, CFO Flight Safety Foundation

15:00 – 15:45

Panel Interview
Bill Voss, Interviewer, will pose some of the more controversial and complex questions to our panel of experts, including:
  • Arguing safety but thinking efficiency
  • The issue of commuting
  • Controlled rest in the flight deck
  • Why has ICAO only focused on flight and cabin crew?
  • Is FRMS for everyone?

- Ms. Kathryn Jones
- Capt. Don Wykoff
- Capt. Jim Mangie
- Dr. Michelle Millar
- Dr. Curt Graeber

15:45 – 16:15

The Future - What can we Expect from FRMS?
  • How fatigue science has evolved and where it still needs to go
  • Managing risks rather than eliminating a problem

Dr. Mark Rosekind
Member, NTSB

16:15 – 16:30

Closure of the FRMS Symposium
  • Lead into FRMS Forum Meeting

Ms. Nancy Graham,
Director ANB, ICAO

FRMS Forum's Third Annual Meeting
DAY 3: Thursday, 1 September 2011

1st September 2011

8:30 - 8:35

Welcome and Housekeeping

Mr. Douglas Mellor,
FRMS Forum

8:35 - 8:50


Dr. Curt Graeber,
Chair, FRMS Forum

8:50 - 9:05

Addressing the myths about bio-mathematical models

Capt. Jim Mangie,
Delta Air Lines

9:05 - 10:20

Model Review 1
  • FAID

Mr. Len Pearson, Interdynamics Pty Ltd.

Mr. Richard Yates,
Integrated Safety Support

10:20 - 10:50

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by Integrated Safety Support (ISS)


10:50 - 11:20

Setting up a new operational network around FRMS

Capt. Simon Stewart,

11:20 - 12:35

Model Review 2

Dr. Steve Hursh, Institutes for Behavior Resources, Inc.

12:35 - 14:00


14:00 - 15:15

Model Review 3
  • SAFE

Mick Spencer

Dr. Barbara Stone
, FRMSc Limited

15:15 - 15:45

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by the Aloft Group and Integrated Safety Support (ISS)


15:45 - 17:15

Lessons learned when Implementing FRMS
  • NetJets Europe, Portugal
  • German Wings
  • National Airlines Council of Canada (NACC)

Mr. Douglas Mellor,
FRMS Forum
  • Ms. Claudia Cabaco, Netjets Europe
  • Capt. Kristjof Tritschler,
    German Wings
  • Capt. Michel Chiasson, Chair, NACC



Cocktails - Delta Hotel
Sponsored by CAA International




Dinner Reception - Delta Hotel

Participants planning to attend this reception must register at the FRMS Forum website by clicking

At individual's personal cost of $88 CAD per head

DAY 4: Friday, 2 September 2011

2nd September 2011

8:30 - 9:45

Model Review 4
  • Circadian Alertness Simulator

Dr. Martin Moore-Ede, Circadian Technology

9:45 - 10:00

Fatigue Reporting Forms and the role of the Fatigue Safety Action Group

Dr. David Powell,
Air New Zealand

10:00 - 10:30

Coffee / Refreshments
Sponsored by Interdynamics Pty Ltd.


10:30 - 11:45

Model Review 5
  • The Boeing Alertness Model

Mr. Tomas Klemets, Jeppesen

11:45 - 12:05

Separating Industry Issues from Safety Issues

Capt. Rob Holliday,
Virgin Atlantic

12:05 - 12:20

FAA Approach

Dr. Tom Nesthus, FAA
Mr. Dale Robers, FAA

12:20 - 13:45


13:45 - 14:25

Summary of the Models

Ms. Kathryn Jones,
UK CAA and Presenters

14:25 - 14:55

Validating models within an operational environment

Ms. Lydia Hambour, easyJet
Dr. Arnab Majumbar,
Imperial College, London

14:55 - 15:25

The "Fit to Fly" Approach

Dr. Reis Simons,


Closing Remarks

Dr. Curt Graeber,
Chair, FRMS Forum


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Last Updated: 29 August 2011

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